964: Ginni Media: Podcasting Growth and ROI with Ginni Saraswati

Robert Plank 00:04 Hey, and welcome back to the podcast. We're here with Ginny Saraswati . And she is the owner and founder of Ginny media.com. They are a New York City based internationally recognized podcasting production house providing multiple podcast services in one company. So we're going to be hearing today all about why you should consider a podcast if you want to grow your business, how to make your car podcast bingeable, and so much more. So Jimmy, glad to be talking to you.

Ginni Saraswati 00:32 Thank you, Robert, for having me. I appreciate the time on this show. I'm excited to talk about podcasting, my favorite topic other than coffee.

Robert Plank 00:39 And that's my favorite topic too. And we met could be because I was hosting a different show that you're on. So that's just means maybe that we're both all over the place. And some people dabble. Some people are hobbyists, but not you and me. We're serious. And so what are you serious about? What is your passion, focus podcasting, but what does it mean in your context?

Ginni Saraswati 00:59 Well, I love the platform of podcasting way before podcasting was actually podcasting. Right now, that's how we see and relate to this particular medium that's out in the world. But I was actually one of the OGS in radio and then became a podcaster, because it was a consequence of being on radio. But what my focus is really, when I when I actually am having conversation with people is to be present, is to be in conversation, and is to elevate diverse voices using audio media. So there's a lot of focuses I have, but that seems to be the one that comes up for me every day as we produce and help lots of podcasters start grow and, you know, continue their show,

Robert Plank 01:39 start grow, continue to grow your show and elevate those diverse voices. And you know, you're touching on something that I just now realize that the there's something about these radio type personalities, right, like, for some reason, the TV personalities or the video people, I just don't like them as much as the people that are more of the radio and the talkers. And you're also making me think that even like 15 plus years ago, when I would try to network, and I would go to an event. And what would happen was we'd exchanged business cards, and not much would come of it. But then what would happen is we exchanged business cards, I'd phone or email and we get on whatever rickety platform there was back then maybe Skype or something. And we would record an audio only conversation. And I would put it on a webpage with an audio got flash audio button, and some links. And so it was like primitive podcasting. But I preferred that a lot better. Because I knew that I had something tangible from my networking wasn't just like, oh, you you make connections, or you grow your network. And that's all great. But it's like, I want to actually see some results. And I want to remember people and then they remember me. So I like podcasting because you when you record something together, then you do have to get all those benefits, like growing your network, but actually see what comes about it. And so you're elevating these voices in this way. And so what are your achievements? What do you have to celebrate lately and brag about

Ginni Saraswati 03:05 bragging about lately? Wow, this is really cool. It's a really, really cool question. I kind of look at my day, if I am to look at how I stopped my day. You know, I'm obsessed with morning routines. And when I say that people tend to roll their eyes, some people may be rolling their eyes right now. But what I actually am looking at is, for me this journey of entrepreneurship, whether it be your Podcast Producer, whatever you do, however, you run a business as an entrepreneur. For me, this has been such a journey of learning something about myself, every day, every minute, every hour, every day, every year, right when you build in that reflection process. So the biggest achievement that I'm going to brag about is I have learned so much about myself in the last two years post pandemic than I have ever before. And that sounds kind of weird to say, but it has really helped me grow my business, elevate diverse voices, and really just stick to the mission that I talked about. So there's been great growth that we've had at cine media, we've grown to 100%. year on year since we've started in 2018 to 2021, we regrouped We doubled every year in revenue. We started off with a team of like seven now we have a team of 27. So there's a lot to be proud of there alone. But what I'm particularly proud of every day, all that aside, is the fact that my team of 27 people there from 16 Different countries across the world. We're always we've always been remote. Yet we managed to produce creative thought for pieces of audio media day in day out. And we all get along pretty well for a team that's never actually really met each other physically. So that for me is an achievement. I celebrate daily when you know, people compliment me from clients to people who've just interacted with my team for half an hour saying your team is so lovely. They gush about them. For me that's like you know, that's like a mother being given a good report card for So that's something that I'm proud of daily. And that I will always brag about, in a way, my humble brag,

Robert Plank 05:05 that's wonderful that you can take the compliment. But it's not just you, it's the whole team. So that way, there's the selflessness of it as well. You've enjoyed this personal growth, and this business growth and some of the things that you've been mentioning so far, like growing your team, just 27 people, that does not happen instantly. That's one of those things where it takes some being careful and putting in the time and the work and the consistent daily progress and the steering, the ship and course correcting. And then also, you mentioned these things about like the morning routine. And these all just the, the way they all relate is just about showing up every day, and being focused and like renewing and refreshing yourself. And so when we last spoke a bunch of years ago, my number one problem at the time, was showing up to appointments because with with podcasting, you worry about pod fade, or even if podcasting leads to like coaching clients, or we always have to have things in the calendar, but then it's really easy to look at all the appointments and say, I'll show up to half of them, or I'll skip on this or skip on that next thing, you know, you don't take the calendar seriously. And so at the time we were last speaking, I was trying to say like, Okay, if I have something at 10am, I'll show up to it. And in that between time, I asked one of my podcast guests, or I asked a few and I was like how do I show up? How do I like, you know, make all these appointments? If I have like 15 podcast interviews, how do I get to all of them? And he said, Do the mental work, start your day off, right? Don't just expect it to happen. And it's one of those weird, I don't know, you don't necessarily see the connection right away with like, well, here's the morning routine. And here's the working on myself and being mentally healthy and all that and showing up over here. That's your that's what you're reminding me of is this how how under like the morning routine, it is cheesy, but it is underrated your emotional intelligence and your mental health in order to show up every day, the way that you should to grow yourself, grow your business,

Ginni Saraswati 07:06 exactly what you hit on there about, you know how to show up every day, no matter as you are in that moment. And I have learned and if we've all learned as a global community, not every day looks the same, right? You don't wake up feeling like, Hey, I'm gonna conquer the day every day, some days you wake up tired. Some days, you know, your kids may need You more. Like yesterday, literally had a whole day plan that turned out my little kitten had a fever, we had to rush to the vet didn't go to plan. But that is what life is right. You're an entrepreneur, you have a life outside of work, it's a part of your work, too. So you've got to adjust and adapt. But to your point there, Robert about, you know how you need to mentally prepare, but also mentally be aware of what your body is telling you how your mind is feeling what you're being triggered by that sort of stuff isn't sexy, because you know, it's not sexy to be in therapy and talk about why you were triggered by this particular client or this particular birth person or business partner. It's not sexy to go through all of that, to unpack all of that. And then how that affects how you show up as an entrepreneur or as a leader to your team. Right? There's things that you do need to work on, you know, people say you have to work on on the business, work it you have to work on your business, too, as in what's going on in here, your trauma, whatever past experiences you had the heartbreak that he's worked to, because that's going to affect how you show up every day. So to your point, I think there's there's work that that has to be done outside of entrepreneurship. But that's also the beauty of it, because the more you grow, and the more you're aware about what needs to be worked on, makes the connection between that and how you show up is quite, it's quite significant. Really.

Robert Plank 08:43 I agree. It's like that Dunning Kruger graph where they say, there's like the IQ goes down, and then up. And you say that there are people that they don't even know there's a problem, they think that they have it all figured out. They think they're so smart. And as they learn the ways in which they're not perfect, and the confidence or the whatever goes down and down until you get to the rock bottom. And then the growth happens after that. And then it doesn't quite get up to that level of ultra confidence. But then as a result, you get that personal transformation. And it's the same when we work on our issues work on our stuff. And how else will you will you work on it right? If you just sit in a room and don't grow your business and don't take the risks and do the stressful things. And if you don't network, then you don't deal with people, then you won't get anywhere. So it's like one of two choices. And so as far as you have the these podcasts that you grow for people, right you have these clients and so what's the typical client like like, Are they someone that they want you to boost their podcast? They want to start from scratch or is it a mix? What's the typical avatar like?

Ginni Saraswati 09:47 The typical client avatar we have is either an entrepreneur or a brand or business that's you know, a small to medium business or brand or like a fortune 500 grand. The podcast is either an extension of the brand, or it's all They're also a way to communicate their brand business or personality really. So it is a communication tool effectively. And it's a way to, I guess, deepen or add value to their current customer or client base, or to deepen or add value to grow their client and customer base. So that's typically the client that comes with going, Hey, we want to create great content. And I want to talk about my awesome product. And I say, don't do that. Because you're effectively doing a 30 minute ad. And what happens with a 30 minute ad? Do people find it engaging? No, because you're selling at them, you're talking at them. So it's about teaching people how to reframe how they think about podcasting, because podcasting, I mean, there's different types of podcasts. And there's documentary style, there's obviously conversational, like, q&a, but the traditional q&a podcast, it's a conversation and I think people need to get out of the mindset of, oh, this is an interview, I'm interviewing this person. Yes. If you want to get super, super technical, it is an interview. You can call it whatever you want. But it's a conversation, you go back and forth, you talk about different things you relate to you connect to that's the element that I find, not challenging, but it's something that it comes up every time with a client, it's like, let's have a conversation. Let's not talk about not sell anything, let's have a conversation about this particular thing. So that also comes with listening that comes with a level of okay, you don't need to script every question. You just need to be there and listen. And people, you'd find it very interesting. robit some people just don't know how to listen. And you've got to teach them how to.

Robert Plank 11:31 And if someone says, I don't know how to listen, I mean, how does that even happen? Is that just a matter of like listening to other podcasts, or you get, whereas you put in the hours, you get the experience that happens, like if someone just doesn't listen, what's even the way forward?

Ginni Saraswati 11:46 I think it's every having a little bit of everything right. But I think one of the one part is yes, listening to other podcasts, other hosts, how they engage how they connect, is a way to learn how to do that when you're in the presence of someone else. But the other thing is exactly what I just said there, the presence like being present, what are they asking me? What are they sharing with me, I really want to listen to what they're saying, and then respond. Yeah, that movie hitch where he's teaching, you know, people, the male clients, he has had a date, he's like, you listen to her, and you respond, it kind of feels like that sometimes.

Robert Plank 12:22 an underrated skill, it's way too easy to win, the cliche is like less waiting for your chance to reply. And then And that's no fun. And we've all been there where the conversation is like a tug of war, and you're trying to move it forward, and they want to go back to this other stuff, or you're talking and suddenly they're off on some other tangent. And so that's been, it took me a few years to figure that out, too. And I was, I was always fixated on the how to, or the selling, and that it just took us so much time to say, well, you know, what's more interesting, are the stories or the emotion, or if someone says one little thread that I can pick up on, but then also, the flip side of that is to not one up the other person. Because then it's there's the tempting, and it almost feels like being on a date, right? Where you're saying like, well, I can't I can't be too outrageous, I can't like they say something. And I like say something totally off the wall. So there's definitely special zone to be in. But I imagine that when your clients discover that zone, then podcasting goes from something that's new and awkward to something that's fun that they see these results from in their business. And so do you feel like sharing about like, what sort of, like fun shows you've grown or like what industries are in because that's always fun to me just being like, well, someone's in some, like totally other niche. And then it's like, you're, you're more open to it, because you're like, it's nothing to do with me. But I can also relate. So what do you have as far as these crazy industries?

Ginni Saraswati 13:49 Well, I wouldn't say this industry is crazy. But I find this industry, like immensely interesting and fascinating, just with how technology is being used nowadays, you know, there's lots of talk with AI and how it's influencing, influencing creativity. But we produce a podcast called healthcare perspective, it's by Siemens Healthineers. And they talk about like, some of the really, really cool, like advancements in medical technology and how technology is going to become how technology is going to pair with like traditional health care to have a greater experience. Like for example, there's a creation called the digital twin, right, which is essentially a digital replica of an organ of yourself. So say, for example, your liver, Robert, they'll create a digital replica of your liver, exactly your liver, a digital replica, it will look the way your liver does, it'll do exactly what your liver does, it'll respond the way your liver does. So if you want to be like, Okay, if Robert were to take on smoking at 35 by 57, what would his liver look like? And it would replicate that journey for you like what potential pitfalls could you get? What would your lungs look like? Like that, for me is fascinating because it tells you like I'm fat resonated with like, oh, this decision you made impacted the trajectory of the next, you know, 22 years of your life. Like that, for me is just fascinating stuff how this technology, it's just pairing up working together and, and coming to life, how we can really see how these choices we're making to our with to our body and with our body are affecting the quality of our life, because we don't think about that stuff, right? When the moment when we're eating the bag of chips, or if we're having extra caffeine, how is that going to affect, you know, our ability to develop, you know, neurodegenerative diseases, like, we don't know those things. But now that we have the technology, we can get some insight into that. So that's something that's really cool. And I geek out about, and I really love learning that stuff, too. Like, oh, that's really, really interesting.

Robert Plank 15:44 I love geeking out about the randomness as well, and podcast surfing or YouTube surfing, like, I think the other day in a walk, I was hearing something about rogue planets, like planets around without a star. And we don't, we can't easily detect them. But they're saying there might be like 10 times as many planets in our galaxy that are not orbiting stars. And a planet can go from like, one end of the galaxy to the other and not even be anywhere close to a star. My brain is just going, like just expanding. And these are things that we if if we're not curious, we missed out on these things, right? Because I saw some other statistic the other day that said like, the average adult doesn't read a book after they're done with school. If something crazy high like like 40 or 60% of something people just stop. And it's like, that's super scary. I hope that I'm never like that. But then because you're all about podcasting, and you help these companies tap into podcasting that most people that have stopped learning that are stuck in their ways. They can do go do whatever, but the people that are looking to solve their problems are looking to expand their horizons that are listening to podcasts, we can get in front of that. So what would you say, hold your clients back from podcasting? Like, obviously, when they don't have you they don't have a plan. But then when they do find you, and they have all the excuses objections, what do they say? Like why they think they can't do it? Or why they think it will be difficult.

Ginni Saraswati 17:10 It's typically three hesitations, rubbish one is overwhelmed. And what you mentioned there like, you know, getting in their heads about what am I going to talk about? What am I going to say? How will people perceive me? Am I going to sound like an idiot on the mic? That overwhelming then the other part of you overwhelmed is the pot of tech. Like, what microphone do I buy? Because if you jump on Google now and type in microphones for podcasting, you get 2 billion searches. Can you imagine searching through all of that when you're? You know, coupled with? Oh, my God, this is so hard already. That is a big deflator. The other thing is, and I touched on it before, like, what do I talk about? Like, you know, how can I make this be engaging? How can I be like Joe Rogan? That's been a common thing that I've heard the last three years, how do I sound like Joe Rogan? I'm like, you can't You're not Joe Rogan. Like that's really the honest answer. You can only sound like you and bring you and your authentic voice to the world. That's what Joe Rogan does best. Because he's Joe Rogan, right? And the third thing I would say, is ROI monetization. They're like, well, if I'm going to put money behind it, how can I get that back? So if I'm looking at it, from a company standpoint, I tell them, Hey, you gotta think of this like a marketing budget for you. If you're going to spend $5,000 on a billboard, think about how that correlates to ROI. If you were to do a podcast, you don't know how many eyes go on a billboard or how many conversions you're gonna get right? You can estimate, but you don't know how many eyes are physically looking up and seeing your logo or your face or your brand on that billboard. But a podcast, you can track how many listeners you get, you can track what platforms they use, you can get more data out of that. So they're the three hesitations is typically tech ROI, and then the overwhelm of it all. So the three things,

Robert Plank 18:51 you're tapping into something where I saw a couple of years ago, I saw someone should have an image of what 100 People look like seeing in a room. And they and the point was like, if you have a podcast, and even just a small, humble number, like 100 people listen to your podcast episode at first. That's 100 actual listeners. It's not 100 clicks, it's not 100 impressions for two seconds, as you're scrolling through Facebook, or Twitter, or x or whatever platform. It's like 100 people that actually are interested in you and your company and the news that you have to generate and the fun hooks and topics. And so that's really reassuring that you can have this reach and also that you need to forget about being Joe Rogan and be yourself. No one ever said, Oh, Joe Rogan's like this is a copy of this person he's just himself so why not carve out your own niche in that as well. And this this this journey that we've both been talking about of self discovery and revealing the real you and who you really are, which you just uncovered that from having these conversations and putting out this content. It's like when you go to the the fair EPIs might take you a little while, but then eventually the real you comes out. And so if someone says, Okay, this idea of podcasting, I love it. How can genies team helped me out with this? And how do they know if they're a good fit for you?

Ginni Saraswati 20:14 Well, I think typically, the clients who come to us have an idea, they're like, Oh, this is what I think would be great. And I'm just on the first call with them, or kind of idea will be like, well, we could kind of do it this way. Or we could do it this way. Because every podcast doesn't have to look like a q&a conversation. Like, it doesn't have to be Oh, it's just, you know, two people talking most of the time it is, but maybe we could do it in more of like a documentary or narrative style, while you like take different clips from different things. So we kind of ideate and they you kind of understand if there is a chemistry with that client, if there's a chemistry of creativity really is where it starts. If if that is there, then we're a good fit. And if you're like, oh, maybe this isn't a good fit, you tend to kind of notice that within the first 20 minutes of talking to each other. Because typically, people who come to me they have a business, they're ready to go, they just don't know how that's typically the conversations that I'm having in the last three years. That's the type of people who come to me for like a lead call. So that and if people are like, Oh, Kenji media helped me, that's the first place to start, have a call with us, that we may not be the production team to you. But I'll guarantee you in the call that we have, there will be some value that you'll get out of it, whether you'll be like, Okay, now I know what microphone to buy, I'm clear about this. Like, you won't have to go through that overwhelm that you tend to go through when you don't know where to start. So that's the first place to start. And then you know, we've got a wide range of services, everything from production routine is like where we produce for you ongoing, where we record with you, we can help you strategize your shows, we can come up with a content calendar. So we've got a whole array of services that we something there for a need that you will have. But it first starts with what I preach, have a conversation, and I'll be there to listen and hear you to.

Robert Plank 21:56 Amazing, that's a great place to start, especially because at the beginning, you said that you have this radio background, you're a podcaster. You love conversations. So it makes perfect sense that someone should meet with you to have that sort of chemistry test to see if it makes sense moving forward. And then even in the worst possible case scenario, if they say oh, did it didn't work at all, we don't fit, at least they will leave saying I can at least have a step or two ahead of where I was. I know what microphone that I have a need to get. And and you and I both know that you incrementally improve that sort of stuff anyway, right you over time. In two years, we'll get a new microphone, you get a new camera, it grows with you. And it's just so important to just show up as you are and and be your best self and do your best and it'll never be Joe Rogan perfect. But even even when I watch Joe Rogan, like he's got the stupid earphones in his the sides of his head are all sweaty. So he's got a bunch of crap around like even like the messiness of the Joe Rogan. And so no one's perfect. And so if someone says, Okay, this sounds like a great idea, I want to at least have that conversation. That's a low commitment, then how do they take the next step? How do they find you? Where do they go,

Ginni Saraswati 23:07 they go to Ginny media.com, you'll see all the list of shows that we produce a little bit about us and our journey, you'll be able to see certain press outlets, we've been featured on some people that we work with. So you got to Ginny media.com You'll be able to contest contact us directly from there, our phone numbers, their email is there, and we hope to hear from you soon. And thank you, Robert, for this time, it's been yet another awesome conversation with you.

Robert Plank 23:31 It has been and you were necessary half part of that. So the place to go is GINNIMEDI a.com. That's Ginny media instead of a call. And as we're wrapping up our podcast discussion here, Ginni, I like to have the impromptu but also have like one or two pre planned questions. And I would also like to end with a bang. So my ending with the bang, pre plan question put my guests on the spot is, if you think back 20 years ago, is there advice that you wish you gotten that would have changed everything? What advice you wish you'd gotten 20 years ago? Oh,

Ginni Saraswati 24:09 that's a great question. Don't be so fixated on buying the house and the things. That's advice I wish I got because you know, when you're 17 and you know, you're about to graduate high school and go into college, you're like, Okay, college, marriage, got a job, gotta buy a house, like maybe not necessarily in that order. But that was kind of buying a place was like the North Star. But and that fixation for me had no I didn't think about the practicality of that, like, Okay, I'm gonna save and then I've got to continue paying, but am I really happy about what? Like, I didn't think about those things. So if someone told me Hey, there's another way go try things. Eventually I got there myself. But if someone told me at 17 I would have saved a lot of time.

Robert Plank 24:56 I love it food for thought something to think about. Don't be fixated on those things. But the activity that you shouldn't be fixated on is to go right now to Ginny media.com. We will see you there. And thank you Jenny for showing up blowing our minds giving us a lot of cool ideas. I appreciate it.

Ginni Saraswati 25:11 Thank you, Robin. It's been a blast. Thanks so much for having me.

Robert Plank 25:16 Give one podcast.com forward Slash Free. Go there right now to see what you could be missing in your podcast. Maybe you aren't active enough on social media? Are you writing and broadcasting an email for every episode of your podcast? Do you follow up with your podcast guests? Do you do things to make your podcast interview and content creation easier? Go to d of y podcast.com/free to claim your gift right now.