319: Live Events, Non-Profit Fundraisers, Sponsorships, Partnerships, Referrals and More with Small Business Consultant and Event Manager Melissa Forziat

Robert Plank 0:00 Robert Plank Show Episode 319, live events, non profit fundraisers, sponsorships, partnerships, referrals and more, with small business consultants and Event Manager Melissa forziat, hi everyone, and welcome back to the show. We're joined right now by Melissa forziette, and her website is Melissa for the events, and she's a small business marketing coach and an event manager with an international experience in event and brand management. Now she's a goal driven and a creative planner, and she enjoys strategically planning events and marketing campaigns that allow clients the satisfaction of connecting their great missions, products and services with their audience. So Melissa, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. It's great to be on the Robert Plank show. Awesome. It's great to have you on the Robert Plank show. So we kind of said a little bit about your background there. And so maybe, can you kind of like, elaborate that on that a little bit, and maybe tell us, like, out of all that, like, what makes you kind of stand out and what makes you special?

Melissa Forziat 0:56 Well, I mean, I think that the key thing to get from all that in the bio is that it was a journey, a somewhat non linear journey. And I started out doing major international sport events because I had been a gymnast for 18 years, and that sport just pretty much ended when I was 22 and I loved doing that sport, but I didn't know how to keep it going in my life. I didn't know how to keep sport in my life if I couldn't do it anymore. So I ended up getting connected and, well, working very hard to get connected with the Olympic movement. And I started out doing major international sport events like Olympic Winter Games and Rugby World Cups, and that was on the event logistics side, you know, managing events for particular client groups, and usually the media was the group that I was looking after. And through that process, I learned what it's like to represent a brand, a huge brand, and the way that you need to be a brand ambassador and be on point at all times with the company message. So I was getting two skill sets at the same time. And then five years ago, I started my own business, and I I started taking it to small businesses and nonprofits, because I find that the principles of good event management and good marketing, they carry over, whether you're talking about a small business or an Olympic organizing committee, but the challenge for the small businesses is that they don't have the resources to implement them. So I really enjoy working with people who have those challenges to face, because in addition to helping them overcome those challenges, you can also see the impact of your work, and I didn't always see that before in the work that I was doing. So now that you can actually see that you're changing a life with a good piece of information at the right time, it's become a really rewarding process for me.

Robert Plank 2:53 And that's really cool, because, I mean, it sounds like you kind of like, had had this sort of track you were on, and then, like, you know, things, things always happen, or we end up, like, you know, not being on the same track, like, 10 years from now. But it's like you, you found this sort of area where you were really good, you had these sort of sort of skills, and you had a lot of fun with it. And it sounds like you were able to sort of just, like, apply it to, like, something a little different, a little different, so that you keep on, like, doing that thing that excited you, even if, like, you couldn't stay on, like, the original path, yeah. And

Melissa Forziat 3:24 I think something that I learned through the process was that you can learn the skills that you need to. It's just sometimes you just need to be motivated by what it is you're doing. And I found it every step of the way. There are people who kind of stay within the field that I was in and and they can't imagine how their skills will transfer. So, you know, there were, there were people that I did sports with when I was younger, and they just didn't quite see what was going to happen with their sports and their gymnastics background. And then I sort of showed that you can transcend that, and you can turn it into something else that's actually not that far removed. And then, you know, I got into this sport event planning world, and I found that a lot of people who were in, especially, you know, people who were going from one Olympic Games or one Rugby World Cup or, you know, whatever these events were that I was working on, those people who were doing that very often, they didn't really know what the next step would be outside of that world, because it was like, Well, I just have this very specific skill set for these very specific types of events. And so again, by creating my own business from it, it was sort of like, no, there's these. These skills are all transferable. You can take them and turn them into something else, and wherever you bring it, you're going to come with all this extra knowledge that you'll just keep building on every time you sort of cross over. So I actually, I would say that, you know, when I work with small businesses, my advantage here is that I can actually think in a big scale. I can think about what happens when you're trying to get this brand across to. Hundreds of 1000s of people, millions of people, and yet I can still look at it with the idea that small businesses have a very specific budget and very specific set of human resources to start with, and

Robert Plank 5:14 that's great. So it's like you've run events of all kinds of shapes and sizes, so that way, like you've seen it all. And if someone wants to kind of make their event, you know, bigger, or kind of on the next step of whatever they're doing, you've kind of been there, as opposed to someone who has been sort of trapped in a box and so, and I really, like, a lot of what, uh, what you've been talking about so far, because, like, sort of as you were explaining that how, like, you know, you had your colleagues and people like that, and, like, I know some people who maybe their industry kind of died out, right, like book publishers or, like radio DJs and people like that, and, and they kind of like took those same skills into stuff like, like podcasting or self publishing or stuff like that, and, and, yeah, so it just it reminds me of even, like, when I had a day job and I did all this high computer programming stuff, I had all these co workers who kind of stuck to one thing, and they were kind of just like writing on the same thing they learned, like, 20 years ago, and they were just kind of hanging on to their job because it was sort of getting more and more obsolete. And I think that, and you've probably seen this too, where, like, a lot of sort of entrepreneurs and people like that, they kind of like either wait for their job to run out, or they kind of lose their whole, the whole, like, career just dries up, and then now they're kind of stuck trying to fill in the gap. But I really like what you've done where you kind of just kind of take, like you said, you've taken those same skills and sort of transitioned into something new. And so when you say that you you help small businesses and you run events of all kinds of sizes. I mean, is it really, like, any size? Or like, how how much is too small? How much is too big? Or maybe, like, what's your typical sort of event size that you're planning?

Melissa Forziat 6:45 Yeah, I mean, I would say that I'm typically, I'm typically doing fundraisers, if I'm working with a nonprofit and for small businesses, events may or may not be the right way to go. A lot of people think they want to do events, and don't necessarily realize that there's a lot of time and money that goes into that process. So when I'm working with small businesses, I tend to be a little bit cautionary and make sure that that's exactly the way that they want to get in front of their audience. But if it is, I mean, we're talking about, you know, usually anywhere in the 50 to 400 people ranges around the the size of an event that I might do. And yeah, I would say so very specifically, looking at nonprofits and and small businesses for it. But I find the events tend to be more on the nonprofit side, because it's, you know, fundraisers are just something that are so especially in the Seattle area, which is where I am, they tend to be, you'll see a lot of nonprofits and a lot of fundraisers in this area. So it's a thing that people know,

Robert Plank 7:51 and is there a reason why it's easier, or is there a reason why there seems to be, like, more fundraisers that you do compared to small businesses, like, Is it is it easier for nonprofit to run live events? Or like, what's to do with that? I

Melissa Forziat 8:05 don't know that. I would say it's easier, although I usually would say that nonprofits tend to already have a little bit more staff than some of the small businesses that I work with. You know, in many cases, nonprofits that I work with have somewhere between 10 to 30 people who are on the team, whereas a small business might have fewer than 10 people, and usually my clients are five and fewer. So you're really dealing with a different set of resources. And when you do an event, you know it's a little bit deceptive, because four months out from the event, three months out from the event, it feels like you have all the time in the world, and the deadlines are really spaced out. But when you get to the last month, and especially the last couple of weeks, the the workload explodes, and you if you've not done an event before, it can be a very surprising factor, and it can also be really tough to manage if you haven't planned for it, because you have all the other normal activities day to day, in addition to the fact that you're trying to run the event. So when it comes to small businesses, you know, I like to look at all the marketing options that are out there, and sometimes events are the way to do it. But sometimes they have to really consider what their resources are and think if there's another way to get in front of their audience that's more realistic for the resources they have to give,

Robert Plank 9:21 Okay, fair enough. Yeah, and, and, um, me and my business partner, we run like, a handful of events, and they're, like, super, super small, like, uh, we we ran one and we had 30 people art, and we had 20 people at 2500 bucks a seat. And this was like, maybe, like, five years ago, and we thought, great. Like, if we're getting this many at this high price point, let's try to fill up room of like, 100 plus. And I think we filled up like 30 at 100 bucks each. And and we were starting to think like, well, maybe we should move it to like a major city, or maybe we should like, you know, get, like, look into sponsors, or looking to get, like, some other speakers or promote. And then we were just like, I don't know. It ended up being like, too much of a hassle. Do it? Because it like it looked unlike on the outside, it looked like it was like the easiest thing, right going into event walk into the room all the stuff set up. Like, oh, super easy. But then as my business partner was going back with his his contact at the hotel, he was telling me that it was like, almost like planning a wedding with, like, all the stuff that had to be in place and all the little like, fees and all that, all the different stresses and so like when, when you have work with these clients, and you say that, you know, sometimes a live event is not for them, so how do you sort of make that, that decision whether a live event is sort of worth doing or not?

Melissa Forziat 10:35 Well, I think part of it is about saying, Okay, who is your target market, where is your target market, and how is your brand best represented in front of them? And, you know, if somebody comes to me and they're dead set on having an event, then that's something that I can help them do. But if they're, if they're saying, I think I want an event, but I really just want to get in front of my market, we might explore some of the other options to do that. And there are variations even, you know, even if they are interested in event marketing, they don't have to plan the event themselves. They could potentially sponsor somebody else's event and get some of the benefit of being part of that event marketing space without having to go through, like you said. I mean, it's just a huge amount of details, a huge amount of work and and, you know, it costs money to run an event, and it's just something that people aren't always prepared for. When you are and when you have a good plan, it can really be a great way to get in front of your audience. And there are a lot of opportunities, like with any campaign you do, there are a lot of opportunities to consistently get in front of your audience with the message of your event, and it gives you a reason to reach out. But again, it's a tough space to be in, so you know, it's something that I would really sit down with somebody and say, Is this the only option you have? Is this the best option you have? Is this the way that you really want to get in front of your target market? And if so, let's go ahead with it

Robert Plank 12:03 makes perfect sense. So be 100% sure that you want to do a live event, as opposed to just kind of being wishy washy and thinking about it. And like, have you noticed that our events, like, sort of dying, or are they? Are they are tougher to do, because it just seems like, especially with, like, some of this internet marketing stuff, like, with, you know, streaming and Facebook. It feels like to me that there used to be, like, a lot more, sort of, like, mid sized marketing events, like 100 to 200 attendees. And then it seems like within like, the last few years, it's kind of, there's like a handful of, like, winning internet marketing events who are, like, in the 1000s, and then everyone that's left over seems to be only, like, just barely hanging on with, like, just like a handful. And even at some of these events, like, either attend or I'll look at like the pictures, and it seems like everyone at the event these days is kind of like on their laptop or on Facebook. So are you seeing any of that, like, any sort of like, change happening with live events last few years?

Melissa Forziat 12:56 Well, I mean, certainly there are changes happening, and the fact that we've created new platforms to have events that are not live. I mean, you can have events that are entirely online, and a lot of people do, so it's just giving people more options and more spaces to be in. The other thing is that, I think, because we're shifting more into the use of online marketing, the people who are online, that's kind of all they see. So you know, when you look at different especially when you look at different generations, you know, there's still a population that wants to see a mailed invitation, and they want to see things done a little bit more formally, and then you've got people who are younger, who perhaps are totally expecting everything to come through them online, through social media or through other apps that they're using. So I think the key now is trying to figure out, you know, which audience you're really trying to reach, and what the right way is to reach them. And that always goes back to the conversation about target markets. So if you were, if you were thinking the right way about how to do your event to begin with, hopefully you will all you were already taking into account who your target market is. So it tells you exactly how to run it and exactly how to get the information out to the people you're trying to reach.

Robert Plank 14:14 Okay, so when? So when you say that, so like someone, there's, it sounds like there's like a few options. If someone says, I want to have an event, then you can say, okay, great, we can get the ball rolling on that. If you if they say, Well, I'm not sure, you can say, well, you can sponsor someone else's event that way. That gets your your your brand and all that stuff in front of someone else's crowd. And then the other option is, it sounds like the sort of like online thing. And do you do all of these things? Like, if you say, you know you're not right for doing an event, do you provide, like, the online sort of thing, or do you help out with a sponsorship, that sort of thing? Yeah.

Melissa Forziat 14:50 I mean, I've done a range of different types of marketing. The key for me is that when I started working with small businesses, the event side of my business is the one that started first and then the. Marketing side came just a little bit later, and it came about because I was already coaching people in marketing, but I wasn't really thinking of that as part of my business. And I was doing it because there were so many people around me in my day to day life who had businesses of their own, and they were basically my target market, and they would come to me with questions about, How do I get more customers? How do I get more volunteers? I'm doing this event. I'm trying to get more sponsors. They would just talk about that. They were trying to get more of something. And it was always a very concrete thing that they were trying to get more of. In some cases, they were saying, look, I've got a safety net job, and, you know, I'm trying to balance that and start my business, but it's getting a little tight doing both, and I don't know if I can make that jump yet. And so we would talk about that and how they could get sort of an influx of clients quickly enough that they could get a little bit more security so that they wouldn't have to hustle quite as hard and be quite as afraid when they made the jump. So generally, the people that I was talking to, were people who were, they were in this target market, and they were, they were trying to figure out solutions to real life problems on the ground while they were in their business. And so I would come up with these, these strategies for them to help them meet their goals. And it wasn't necessarily that I was trying to get them to do an event or that I was trying to get them online. They all they wanted to know was how they were going to get more of the thing they needed more of. So that was really the only thing that we were trying to do. And out of that, I actually developed an ebook called Small business marketing on a budget, where I outline 10 different ways to get in front of your audience. As a small business that doesn't have a lot of resource, doesn't have have a lot of money, doesn't have a lot of people to lean on to help and so it ranges between how you can get into the event space, how you can do online marketing, and even things like leveraging referral marketing and partnership marketing, you know, things that maybe are a little bit easier to do when you don't have as much money in the bank. Great.

Robert Plank 17:07 And so as people are kind of listening as we're talking, can you give us a URL where people can sort of grab that ebook as we're still talking here? Yeah,

Melissa Forziat 17:16 I would start from my website, Melissa, for the events.com, and if you look right on that left menu the sidebar, you'll see the small business marketing on a budget ebook right there, and it's a great resource if you're at a spot where you're trying to think about your options, and you feel like you're kind of stuck on a couple options you've been getting told about over and over again, but you're not sure it's moving the needle enough. This is hopefully just to give you some an injection of new ideas to get you moving forward. And like you said, you know, event events are actually something a lot of times people will come to me leading with that. It's usually that or social media, and usually they're asking me because they're unsure or they're frustrated with the method they've been using, so this is sort of my way to counteract that, and say you've got a range of options out there. Let's consider them awesome.

Robert Plank 18:08 So it's a matter of so what they've been doing now is sort of working, but isn't working enough. They need something different. Their first thought was to host a live event, and then and your ebook here says, well, live event is just one of 10 options of new things you haven't tried. So an event could be it, but it could be one of these other things, right? Exactly. So out of some of those things you mentioned there in the book, like, there's like, like, you know, live events and like, referral marketing and stuff like that, is there one that is like, the usual go to or one that excites you the most out of those 10,

Melissa Forziat 18:42 I actually would say partnership marketing. And a lot of times, people will ask me, what I reckon, you know if I recommend any one tool, and I try to be cautionary about that, because I don't think that any two businesses are completely alike. And so that means probably the way that you can reach your audience might look a little different from the next business over. So it's hard to say that there's any one tool that's perfect and exactly right for every single business, but partnership marketing is pretty close, because if you get creative, you can probably find another business or another influencer to collaborate with that you can mutually help each other to get more exposure and more clients and more income. So that's one that I that I tend to draw back on quite often, that people don't tend to consider very much and and I think it's interesting how rarely people consider it. It's like we want to do it, not that we want to do it ourselves, but we feel like we have to do it ourselves, almost. And I am constantly reminding people that their opportunities for collaboration and the many ideas that they bring to me, so to

Robert Plank 19:50 kind of give us an idea of this whole partnership marketing thing. Do you have a good like case study or example of this sort of thing where you had one of these coaching clients and you in. Reduce some of this partnership marketing thing and help them

Melissa Forziat 20:03 out. I mean, it happens all the time. I mean, I'll be talking with somebody about one of their services. You know, for example, I talked with a photographer. One of my clients is a photographer, and he was constantly trying to think about new ways to get clients. And I thought, Well, why don't you, why don't you connect with a videographer because you offer two different services, but very often, both of those services are required at the same event. And so he went around and did some research and found some videographers and kind of solicited partnerships. I mean, he really looked for ones that he felt like he connected with off the bat, and then he he did cold outreach to them, but it wasn't that cold because he he had a very specific message that he was trying to get across, and he could help them too. So he actually got partnerships out of that, and clients have come from it. And that was something that he was able to create with no real initial opportunity in mind. It wasn't like he was saying, oh, you know what, I have this client, and they need to get a videographer for it. It was like, I think in the future, I will need to be able to have a recommendation for a videographer. And I would love to consider you, and I'd love for you to consider me, but if you have a more concrete campaign in mind, you know, something that I like to do with clients is sort of chart out what that campaign looks like, kind of create a timeline for it, and then say, where are the opportunities to connect with other businesses or influencers here to leverage this thing that's a piece of the campaign. And it's amazing how many opportunities you can find in any one campaign that will allow you to reach out to some other person or company that can help you.

Robert Plank 21:47 So what's, what's the thought process behind there, as far as, like, finding those opportunities? Because it sounds like with the photographer, it was a matter of saying, like, well, here's the service you provide and here's the skills. And sometimes there's, like, this sort of missing piece. So then now, like, now they're looking for someone who has sort of these, not really competitive, but like complimentary skills and and there have been times when, like, one time me and my friend wanted to make a course about membership sites, and instead of making our own membership software, we just kind of went to someone else and got some private label or some white label licenses and then taught a course, teaching their software. So, like, is there usually just, like, some, some kind of thought process behind that, or is it just a matter of, sort of feeling it out? I

Melissa Forziat 22:29 think it's a matter of being as creative as you possibly can and and really sitting down and thinking about where your opportunities are, and I and this is, you know, this is where even sitting down for an hour with a coach can help you identify, like all these different places, where you can potentially partner up and collaborate and exponentially increase your audience for the thing that you're doing. You know, again, you could be looking at a specific campaign. I was just sitting down with with a client the other day, and we were talking about a few online campaigns she was thinking about doing. We talked about one thing, which was a contest. And I said, Well, you know, make sure that when you think about who's going to judge that contest, you think about people that potentially you'd want to collaborate with down the road. And it was really eye opening to her. It was just one tiny little thing in the in the overall scope of the campaign, but we found probably a dozen opportunities like that all throughout the campaign where it was like, no. You can be very intentional about how you source the support for this and what you want to do with it moving forward. But it can also be something where you know, perhaps you have a shortfall or you have a struggle. There's another business that I've worked with that actually tends to have fewer customers and a little bit of a they struggle a little bit with sales during the summer because people want to be outside and their activity is indoors. So they know that their business tends to see less revenue during the summer, so that's something they need to get in front of. And it's like, what other businesses in your area are going to see exactly that same that same dip in revenue during that time? And how do you partner with them so that you can help draw people into both businesses at once? So there are so many different ways that you can look at it, but it's about asking yourself where the opportunities are. And if you really start looking for them, you're going to find a lot of them. It sounds

Robert Plank 24:33 like it. I really like that exercise that you mentioned there of just taking an hour and just listing all these possible things and and so many cool things in some of those examples there, as far as, like, almost like the double dipping, like, have it, have the judges be people that the person wanted to partner with. And then the other thing, as far as if they have, like, a seasonal business where it has a dip, look for other businesses having a dip, so that you can, kind of, you know, make up the difference by. Referring each other, so lots of really cool stuff there, and so in all your travels and all your coaching and all your like experiences and stuff like that, as far as these people that you mentioned where, where you said they're looking for, like, more customers, volunteers, sponsors, maybe looking to transition out of a day job, just looking for more. Do you see a number one mistake happening when they're trying to make that happen?

Melissa Forziat 25:21 I mean, I think there are a couple of mistakes, I think one of them, but I think most of them come from not having the confidence yet, and that tends to be the such a sticking point for so many business owners, basically all business owners, because you really have to convince yourself that you're going to be able to do this thing that you have no proof that you're going to be able to do. And nobody, nobody has ever had proof that they were going to be able to make a business work before they started it right? So you have to be able to have, you know, they say, fake it till you make it for a reason. And that's what you have to do. And you have to be able to say, I, you know, when you get to those, those those points of of having these risks that you take, but there are calculated risks. You have to look at that moment where you're like, I know it's a risk, but I feel like, right now, if I don't take the risk, I can't be successful in the thing that I want to do. So you know, when you've prepared enough, and now the risk is I'm going to let go of my day job. Well, it's scary. You don't have that that security, you don't have that income coming in, but you now have more time to throw yourself into your business, and you now have more time to invest yourself to grow that business so it becomes your safety net. So there comes that tipping point for all of us and all these things we do. And you know, there, there's an another conversation around knowing your value that I think is a really big one. Because when we get started, typically, people are kind of ready to just sort of take anything that comes along, because they either feel desperate or they feel like they need to, or they feel like they need to get practice or exposure. But you have to know your value, because then if you are doing, if you're getting less than your value for the thing that you're providing, you're going to feel it. And you may not feel it until the next time you have to do your taxes, but you are eventually going to feel it. And I think this is this all ties back into the idea of confidence. And so the more you can pretend that you're confident, and the more that you can fight for your value, and the more that you can forge ahead when you know it's time to make that calculated risk, the better off you'll be in your business, because it's it's that holding back and that tibness that we have that can make a business fail because you're just not putting out what you need to in order to get the returns right.

Robert Plank 27:47 I agree completely. And there's so much good stuff in there, and it kind of makes me think back to those times when, when I was super afraid of things, and I, you know, took one risk or another. And, like, I mean, I think about like, you know, like public speaking and stuff like that. And as far as the fake it to you, make it there. I mean, the fake it to you, make it carried me for about a minute or two, and then after that, it was final. All of the butterflies in the stomach went away, and then quitting the job. I mean, sort of same mindset with me there, where I just I looked at it and I said, you know, it would be easy to stay on the job until years and years past, and I always would have wondered, like, what could have been if my time hadn't been split and all that stuff, and then also, like you said, like looking at the upside. So if I say, Well, if I quit my job, looking at all the extra time, I'll have to either have free time or focus on my business, or all that, all that sort of stuff and that, knowing your value, I can also relate to that. Because it seems like, like, you said, like, people end up pricing super low. And I did that early on, and I see people doing that, and it's a hard sort of thing to get Doug out of, because it's like, it sets, sort of, like sets a precedent. If you say, Well, my last job, I charged, you know, 200 bucks. Why am I going to charge 20 gram this time? Because I'm not doing 100 times more of the work. I mean, it feels like it's like, it almost like leads to some of that long term resentment where people start off being sort of timid and sort of cowardly about charging what they're worth. So they say, I'm just getting started. Next thing you know, so much time passes, and they say, Well, geez, I'm, like, working way more than I was before. I'm getting paid way less, and so, so lots of good stuff in there to sort of build that confidence and know your value and fake it to you make it, and kind of make those baby steps and look at the pain of not doing it and the upside of doing it. So lots of good stuff, and I don't want to keep you too long, but I want to make sure that everybody knows where to track you down and where to find you. So we mentioned Melissa for the events.com is that the main place to go

Melissa Forziat 29:39 that is, that's my website, and that has a few really good resources on it, that ebook that I mentioned earlier, if you're looking for some ways to market your business and you don't have a whole lot of money to spend on it, that's a good place to go. And also, I do tips of the week. Every week, I do a pretty significant marketing tip. And if you go into. Section, you're going to find a ton of information going way back for years. So that's another good place to go. And then the third thing that I'd recommend is my Facebook page, which is facebook.com/melissa, Fauci at events, and that one also has marketing advice, but I've also created a great community of people there who are business owners that support each other, and there's lots of different ways that we do that, but it's a good place to get involved if you want to feel like you're not alone in business, and also get a little help in getting your businesses message out there, awesome

Robert Plank 30:35 stuff. And so everyone should go to both those places. Go to Melissa for events.com. Sign up, get that tip of the week, get that ebook, and then join that Facebook group, facebook.com/melissa, for the events, just to make sure that everyone knows how to spell your last name, that's f o r z, i a t. So M, E, L, i, s, s, a, f o r z, I A T. Events.com, if that's enough letters for you people to take in, I want to thank you so much, Melissa, for stopping by the show. I think people are going to love it. I think anyone who is either sort of looking for a change, sort of fed up and burnt out with a day job, they want more income, want to grow their business. It's not growing fast enough. Maybe events are for them, or maybe some other sort of, you know, avenue for them, if they're a nonprofit, maybe they can do some sort of fundraisers, but either way, they should definitely check out your website, check out your stuff. And so one last thing, when they go to Melissa Forza events.com, if they want to get in touch with you, either for like a hire, you for coaching or something like that, is there an easy place on that website to find that also,

Melissa Forziat 31:38 yeah, my email is right on there. And also, there's a contact form where they can go to find that information. Also, if you message me through Facebook, that'll get to me as well. So there are a lot of ways to get in touch with me, and usually, you know, the people that I work with, we have to tailor what we're working on quite a lot. So don't feel like you have to know everything right off the bat. We'll we'll figure it out. Just let me know what you think you think you need, and we'll get to the right place. Awesome, great

Robert Plank 32:03 stuff. So it sounds like there's so many ways to get in contact with you. It's almost harder not to get in contact than to get in contact. So go to Melissa's website and let her know your situation, and let her know what you need help with, and we'll see if it's a good fit and if she can get you to where you need to go. So I want to thank you so much, Melissa for stopping by the show and sharing what you had to share

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Robert Plank 32:26 rate and review our show at Robert plank.com/itunes and like us on Facebook at Robert Plank show.com you.