321: Coaching Certification: Create a Coaching Program, Bootcamp, or Course and Make Small Adjustments for Massive Business Success with Jessica Nazarali

Robert Plank 0:00 Robert Plank Show, episode 321, coaching certification, create a coaching program, boot camp or course, and make small adjustments for massive business success with Jessica nazarali, Hey everyone, and welcome back to the show. Our guest today is Jessica nazarelli, and Jessica knew from an early age that personal development would be a part of her life's work. But it wasn't until she started a passion project, which was a blog and a health food website in 2011 that Jessica's dream came to fruition. Today, Jessica merges business with her desire to help people through the courses she releases through it girl Academy and her podcast. It Girl radio. She is passionate about helping women to use the Evergreen model for enrolling consistent clients and training the next modern generation of coaches. So, Jessica, welcome to the show. And did I get

Jessica Nazarali 0:52 your name right? You did? You did first time hit show, right?

Robert Plank 0:57 Yeah, of course. So can you? Can you sort of, so you mentioned a little bit about you have, like your your IT girl Academy and your IT girl radio. So can you tell us a little bit about what you're working on these days, and what has you excited? Yeah,

Jessica Nazarali 1:08 definitely. So at the moment, I recently launched coaching mastery, which is my coaching certification program, and it's been a project that I had the idea of launching probably about a year ago, and it just kind of took a while to bring everything together and to really make the decision that I wanted to create a new product. And so it's yeah, it's launching, and I've got the first group of people going through the program. So that's really fun. I think it's, yeah, whenever I see a new product come to life, and I'm, you know, really happy with the with the user experience and the design and people are getting results. I always find that really exciting, awesome.

Robert Plank 1:54 Well, I get excited when people get results from my stuff, too. And so just to kind of get us caught up, can you explain to us what this whole like coaching certification thing is? Yeah,

Jessica Nazarali 2:04 definitely. So it's a coaching certification program that essentially teaches people how to coach, but it's different to other certification programs out there. So there's, if you Google coaching certification program, a lot of programs are going to come up that teach people how to coach clients, essentially, to become, you know, a life coach, a health coach, a business coach, whatever coach you desire to be, essentially. But what makes coaching mastering different is we don't just cover coaching skills. We also cover how to consult, teach and mentor, because in my experience, just having coaching, a coaching framework when you're working with clients isn't enough, because typically people are coming to you because you're an expert. You have knowledge and advice to give, so it's important that you know how to give that advice in such a way which is structured and useful and helpful, as opposed to just coaching a client and asking the client, well, what would you like to do in this situation? Or, you know, why? Why are you upset that this is happening? Those questions, you know, asking clients questions and getting them to come up with the answers themselves. That's a powerful coaching skill to have. However, I think it's important that you also include, you know, the advice giving modalities as well, because that's when the big transformations happen, and that that's essentially what makes coaching mastery different. So it's, yeah, it's exciting to finally have the program out into the world and to see people happy and getting results and all that good stuff,

Robert Plank 3:50 great. So like, if I'm understanding you right, like, what's the sort of starting point? Like, can anyone sign up for this coaching certification of yours, or do they already have to have, like, some sort of expertise or, like, with that? Sure,

Jessica Nazarali 4:06 that's really great question. So it's for people that how I market the program. It's for people who already have a level of expertise in something. So say, you know, they've been working in corporate for 40 years, or maybe probably not 40 years. They've been working corporate for 20 years as a marketing manager. So they really know marketing, or, you know, they have a passion for health and wellness. They've been studying mindset. So, yeah, they have, my marketing is very clear. It's like you need to have a skill that you bring to the table, that's how I can help you the most. If you're just saying, Okay, well, I've heard that coaching is a great industry to get into. You can make a lot of money quickly, but you don't really have a skill to utilize that. I find that. Little bit difficult. I mean, you can go into just like kind of general life coaching, but it's that's not really the type of women I desire to work with. It's for people who, yes, already have a skill expertise qualification in some area, and then they want to have more confidence while they're working with clients and actually know how to deliver a coaching session. They want to learn the skills to work with people in this way. And then that's why they would join the program. I

Robert Plank 5:28 gotcha so. So it sounds like these people, they already probably have some sort of knowledge from a past life, from sort of some sort of day job thing, and then now giving them, kind of a structure to to make, to, like, get clients and and manage their time and all that stuff. Yeah,

Jessica Nazarali 5:44 so I'm giving them the structure to confidently be out of work with the clients. So how do you structure a coaching session? How do you deal with a client who is crying? How do you deal with the client who isn't getting results? How do you put together your information in such a way that you're teaching the client? You know what it is that you know, without them getting overwhelmed, without them, you know, just going, okay, there's all this information, but great. Like, what do I do with it? How do I implement so coaching mastery is about, you know, working with client skills so you feel really confident in your product and what you're doing. And I found when people are confident in their product and what they're offering and their ability to work with clients successfully, that's when they get more glowing time client testimonials. That's when they get client referrals, and that's when they're able to charge quickly for what it is that they're doing, because they see first hands the results their clients are getting, and they feel confident in what they're doing. So that's coaching mastery. And then I have business mastery, which is a business building program, which is all, you know, online marketing and funnels and ads and all that fun stuff, but it it kind of just depends on what the person needs, as opposed to which program they start with.

Robert Plank 7:05 Okay, fair enough. And then so my next sort of question about that is, are these we mentioned that your your branding is sort of geared towards women. Are these programs women only? No men allowed? Or is anyone looking to join but us men will be kind of lost, no.

Jessica Nazarali 7:20 So my marketing is towards women, because I think it's important that you know who you're marketing to. Men have joined my programs in the past. I have a man in one of in business mastery, actually at the moment. So it depends if you're comfortable kind of being in a situation where it is women and you kind of know that going in, it's not like men aren't allowed to join. It's just the fact that I market towards women and that most men decide not to join. But it's not like there's a hard and fast rule saying, Okay, you can't join if you're a man. Okay,

Robert Plank 7:57 makes perfect sense. Just just sort of curious about that and so and so I'm still sort of a little bit confused about the difference between the coaching certification and, like this, this business mastery certification. So can you kind of, like, clear that up a little bit like, what exactly do people get when they join the sort of coaching certification versus the business course?

Jessica Nazarali 8:18 So I guess you should look at the coaching certification as a per as it becomes, it comes before the business course. So the coaching certification is because you're becoming a certified coach. So you're actually learning how to coach, you're learning how to consult, you're learning how to teach, you're learning how to put your skills and services together in such a way that creates a coaching program. You're learning how to have confidence to then go out there and work with clients, because you know how to structure a session. You know how to put together your knowledge and expertise. So it it becomes, it comes before the business building programs, because you can go out there and take a bunch of business building programs, but if you don't have the skills to work with a client, so you don't know how to ask powerful questions, you don't know how to coach someone who has just had a major setback in their personal life. You don't know how to put together your knowledge and expertise from your past 20 years in such a way that makes sense, that is logical, that is easy for somebody to digest and understand and implement. If you don't have that experience, and if you don't have that confidence, then it doesn't matter how great your funnels are, it doesn't matter how great your marketing is, there's still going to be I found this with women in particular, that if that, if they don't feel confident in their skill set, in their ability to work with clients and deliver them results, they can have the best funnels, the best email marketing, the best ads, but then they'll get somebody on a discovery session, and they'll almost sabotage themselves. Because they'll say, Well, oh my gosh, what if this client actually signs up and then I'm working with them for 12 weeks. I've never worked with a client before in this way. Am I really, you know, worthy to work with a client in this way? I don't really know how to coach somebody like, what if a client is angry on a call, or what if a client is dissatisfied with their results? I don't know how to handle it. So the coaching certification is really about, you know, a lot of interpersonal skills, a lot of client relationship skills. We have a guest expert in there who's been, you know, Britain's number one therapist. So she's kind of talking about working with clients from even a more, I guess, therapy based perspective. So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's the the business programs like kind of funnels ads, you know, going out there and marketing your business, whether coaching mastery is about becoming really good at working with clients and knowing how to and knowing how to work with them at the end of the day. Does that make sense? Yeah,

Robert Plank 11:07 it does. And so, and you mentioned a little bit in there, like, this whole, like, 12 weeks thing, and I'm sort of curious about, like, what sort of coaching program do you teach, feel to create? Are we talking about, like, like, a course where they go through modules at their own pace, or a boot camp where, like, it has to be, like, week to week, or, like, ongoing one on one meetings, or like, or is it just, like a matter of, like, what they set up it like, is there like, a set thing or different things, like, what is actually a coaching program as far as what you teach? Yeah, that's

Jessica Nazarali 11:37 a good question. So in the beginning of somebody's just getting started. I typically recommend they start off doing one on one, because it's a great opportunity for them to understand their audience more and really perfect their products and their systems and what it is that they're teaching. So typically I recommend you start off, start off at one on one. However, in the program I do go into, okay, well, this is what, you know, a one on one coaching program could look like. I usually give a recommendation of six to 12 weeks. So I have an outline of both the six week program and a 12 week program, and then I give an outline of, you know, how you could then transition into group. But that is, you know, nine times out of 10 I'm saying start off with the one on one. The only time I say, okay, you can start off with group is if you do target market research, and you find that for whatever reason, the niche and the target market you're looking to target, they don't, they don't want one on one. They want a group experience. And I found sometimes mums of small children, they really enjoy the group interaction, because they make friends, and it's more flexible for them, because they have small children, and they may not be able to actually turn up to a call at a specific time. So if you have a target market like that, then I say, okay, yes, you can start off with a small a small group. However, otherwise, I typically recommend the one on one.

Robert Plank 13:02 And you mentioned in there that you do, like a little bit of market research to figure out if one on one is better, or if group is better, or they should kind of transition. And so like, what sort of market research do you do to make that decision?

Jessica Nazarali 13:18 Great question. So I recommend that my clients go out there and speak to five to 10 people for initial target market research. And this type of target market research is essentially they they identify that okay, this type of person is someone who I feel I would like to help, and they have a problem in the area that I'm thinking of coaching or, you know, creating products in. So it's quite broad in the beginning, because I just want people to go out there and start talking to people and ask them questions, like, what is their, you know, biggest fear when it comes to, you know, their health, their relationship, their mindset, whatever area they're looking to get into, like, what goals do they have? What's keeping them up at night? Have they ever received support towards achieving this goal? So it's asking kind of very general questions, and based on what they the feedback that they give and the questions that they give, then the client comes back and creates a program based on what the client is struggling with and what the client needs help with. And then once they've kind of created an outline for that program, I encourage them to go back to the people that they spoke with and show them what they've created and get their feedback on that. And then for further testing, then you can go down the route of, you know, putting up kind of a dummy Facebook ad and seeing if you're getting clicks on that to test, kind of like the the program name, or the, you know, the copy that you'd be using in, like the headline or sub headline. So that's kind of the same. Them part. But in the beginning, I always recommend that my clients go out and have real life conversations, because that's when you hear, you know, the specific phrases and words that people are using. You can also, you know, you can hear their tone of voice, because somebody can say, oh, that sounds great, but you can tell by their tone of voice that they're, you know, just kind of being nice and polite. So I always encourage my clients to say, you know, you being nice and polite, and just telling me what I want to hear actually isn't helping me. So being really honest, that's what's going to help me. And so I've found that people tend to be more honest. If you know you're meeting them face to face, or you know you're having a Skype conversation where you can kind of listen to their tonality and the excitement in their voice when you're explaining what it is that you're doing and the product that you're looking to create. That's

Robert Plank 15:52 super cool. And I imagine that when you talk to them and you get those pain points, that's useful, but also that the exact language or like the phrases they use. I imagine that's really helpful as far as like, like you said, naming the program and making the sales copy, and just like, hearing like those words and phrases, and especially if you if someone talks to five or 10 people and they hear the same phrase like, three or four times, it's like, okay, now I'm on to something which maybe I wouldn't have thought of if I hadn't gone out and done that little bit of research.

Jessica Nazarali 16:20 Exactly, yes, yes, yes. People always say it gets them out of their head, because they're not just thinking about, Okay, well, what type of program I should create. They're really creating it with, like, real life people in mind, and so it just makes the whole process a lot more real. Yeah,

Robert Plank 16:39 and I can relate to that as far as, like, if I've ever been like, stuck writing an email or making a web page or whatever, anytime I've been stuck, it's usually because I just kind of forgot about the person I was writing it for. And every time I kind of do that, I kind of go back to, like, the surveying phase of things, or I think about one person on my list or something, and I'm like, writing an email just to them, or making a sales letter just to them, and the rest sort of works out. And so when it, when it comes time in your inner program for someone to figure out, like, their coaching offer, and especially like the price point and stuff, is that done in the same way? Or do you tell them, like, some sort of guidelines on what their price based on the industry? Or, like, what's the logic behind pricing that coaching program.

Jessica Nazarali 17:22 Yeah, okay, so this is my logic. I doubt you've probably heard this logic before, or maybe you have, so in the beginning, I'm really big on it depends on honestly, it depends on the client's confidence. So if somebody is really struggling with their confidence and really doubting their value, and if they can really do this, I tell them that there's nothing wrong with going out and getting you know one to three complimentary clients and taking them through your entire coaching package for free. So this could be mean, essentially that you work with three people in a three month coaching program for free. Now people sometimes say, Well, you know, just why would I do that? You do that because you take somebody through the whole experience, you see firsthand the transformation that your clients are getting, and then by the end of that coaching program, you're like, Man, I'm never coaching for free again, because Sally, just, you know, lost 10 pounds, met the man of her dreams, quit her jobs, is starting a dream business, and you feel really confident that your program delivers results. So then you have no issue charging right away, whether or not I can, I've seen in the past some people really struggling to name a price and charge, and then they just stay in this limbo line for so long, and they don't get this real life experience of actually seeing how good their their coaching and their program can be. So I recommend that for anyone who is, you know, really doubting if they can do it, and is kind of just wanting the extra confidence boost, then when it actually comes to naming the price, when the person is ready to start charging, my advice, I mean, I give guidelines, yes, but my main advice is, you need to be able to See the price of your program out loud, without hyperventilating, without going into a story of, nobody's going to pay this. Who do? I think I am, because ultimately, the client is going to pick up on if you're feeling, you know, nervous, or if you're not feeling like you can own the value of your coaching package. So it really goes down to Okay. What price can you say out loud without freaking out and in the beginning, there's nothing wrong with okay. Maybe you coach a couple of people for free. Maybe ideally, you would love to be charging. $1,000 a month for your coaching package. Okay, well, yeah, that's a great goal to have if you don't feel like you're there yet, there's nothing wrong with offering an introductory rate. So coming up with a price that you can say that feels really good to you, and then you get your first five people maybe at that rate, and then you can look to increase your prices from there. So I've had some clients who, right out of the gate, feel confident charging, you know, $5,000 for a four month coaching program because they've had 20 years experience in the industry that they're in. So yeah, while they're new to coaching, they're not new to their industry at all, and then I'll have some clients who, yeah, just don't have that confidence and want to build up experience. And I say, yeah, there's nothing wrong with coaching a few people for free. You're going to gain a wonderful Client Testimonial. Hopefully you are going to gain a lot of feedback that you can then improve your program with. And you know you're going to you're going to feel really good when your client starts getting results that you're not going to have an issue charging after the people have gone through your program, and

Robert Plank 21:17 have you seen with your students, like, Are there price points all over the place. Or does certain people tend to like like? Or most people like in like, you know, 1000 bucks a month, or a month like, where, I mean, do you know, like the average sort of price point, I guess, with your with your students? Mm, hmm.

Jessica Nazarali 21:34 So yeah, most people are working towards, I let people know that, okay, like working towards, like the $1,000 per month is, it's a great goal to have, and to be looking at that as, like something that you're aiming towards, I say as a minimum, you want to be charging, you know, no less than, say, $100 a session. So that would be, say, $400 a month when you're starting out to get things moving. But I would say, yeah, like most people, they're probably charging between 500 to 1000 a month.

Robert Plank 22:10 Okay, cool. And then, yeah, so 500 to 1000 a month, $100 a session. And have you seen like, do people like work a certain number of hours, or is there like, is there like a point where there someone's time is maxed out, or they burn out, if they have, like, too many hours or too many clients? Is there like a ceiling to that?

Jessica Nazarali 22:29 Yes, yes, definitely. My typical recommendation is that once you look to be getting fully booked, and that fully books will vary on person to person. When I was doing one on one coaching, there was a time that I had 21 clients, which is totally crazy, like, nobody, nobody, quote, unquote, should be doing that, but it was because I was young and I didn't have kids, and I had a lot of energy, and I was crazy. But most people, I would say, you know, have the goal of, okay, my fully booked is going to be when I have somewhere, I'm guessing, between eight to 15 clients. And then once you're approaching that, you need to be thinking about, what are my next steps? And that typically involves creating a group program. So as you know, you're starting to become quite you know, you're not having the issue signing one on one clients anymore, and you've got an understanding of, okay, this is my process. This is what's really working well with my one on one clients. You start to take that IP and you put it into a group program, and that's when you obviously get that scale and leverage. And then you could essentially cut back with your one on one if you desired to maybe just have, you know, five to two one on one clients, and then spend your time mostly focusing on your group. Awesome.

Robert Plank 23:53 That makes a lot of sense. So start off with the one on one stuff, and then as you become fully booked, then sort of move over to that that move them over to that group program. And I imagine also that at a certain point, people can start to increase their coaching prices, right? If they see results, if they're so booked up that they can, they can only, like, you know, handle so many more people, they can start walking that price up even more.

Jessica Nazarali 24:15 Yeah, exactly.

Robert Plank 24:18 Well, cool. So, and one, one last thing. Or, as we're sort of starting to wind down here, when you said that you were just totally, like, young and full of energy and just totally maxed out at 21 clients, what sort of time commitment was that? Was that like a meeting with them one hour a week, so that you had, you had to commit to 21 hours? Or what was your sort of schedule like that with 21 clients? Okay,

Jessica Nazarali 24:39 so the reason it was, yeah, the reason it was particularly crazy, I'm trying to remember how many clients I had when I was still in my job. Because when I started my business, I was working. I was still working in a job as well. I was working full time, then I scaled back to part time, and. And the 21 clients it was, I was trying to remember when that was particularly I had quit my job, but, yeah, it was, it was like one hour a week. So it was essentially 21 hours of coaching clients per week. Now you may think, Okay, well, that's, you know, Jess, that's like another 20 hours to, like, work on your own business. However, I wasn't, you know, that great at boundaries, so I had, you know, clients be emailing me really long emails, and then say, after coaching, say five or four clients back to back. You're actually quite tired, so you may need to have a bit of a break before you start working in your own business. So it was, it was just, I think, what I found tiring about the experience, it was just managing a lot of, like, 21 people's energies all at once. That's like quite a lot of people. And that's, that's kind of what was I found tiring about the experience. But it was, I mean, it was, I mean, it was an amazing experience, and I was, I learned so much from coaching one on one, but then I really saw that, okay, I can't take on any more clients. And that's when I started creating my group program so I could have more leverage. Yeah, which I did, and it was, it was a great choice,

Robert Plank 26:19 great stuff. And I imagine that, even though it seems crazy to look back on now, I imagine that that kind of was a nice test to sort of see how much you could handle, like, you know, energy wise and time wise, and kind of see how far you could push it. And then once you had, I mean, what a good problem to have, right? Too many people paying money. And then at that point you can kind of scale back, and once you had that first sort of problem solved, which was getting people in. Then you kind of had all lots of choices on, okay, now that I have the money and the people now, I need to kind of get some my time back. So I mean, really great stuff. And as we're sort of starting to wind down here, I'm really curious, like, when you have students go through your program and create their coaching programs and all that kind of fun stuff, do you see like a number one universal mistake all these people are making when they're trying to make their coaching programs?

Jessica Nazarali 27:09 Yes, I do. Actually. I would say the number one mistake I see is that women can sometimes dis the women in my program can sometimes disregard their previous work experience or life experience because they feel like that that's in the past. So I'll give you an experience. I was speaking to someone just a couple of days ago. She was a lawyer for the United Nations, and she has had, you know, other like quite high profile jobs. You know, she's really experienced in her corporate career, and this wasn't on her website at all, like the fact that she was a lawyer for the United Nations, and the skills that obviously she developed from working there, and her expertise wasn't mentioned at all. And I went, why are you not mentioning this like this really makes you stand out from the crowd. You know, how many other women do you think fall into this category that are now, you know, becoming a coach, probably not that many. This is how you really stand out. And she said, Oh, well, that's in the past. I didn't think it was relevant. Now, like, yes, your past experience definitely is relevance, and it what, it's what makes you different. And so I see, you know, there'll be these smart, intelligent women who have had this really great, you know, work experience or life experience, and they almost throw it away, because they might be sick of that industry to a certain extent, and they're all They're sick of, call for it, and they want to get out. But it's a matter of, okay, looking at the skills you gain from being in that job or having that experience, and then looking how you can use them in your business, and at least, you know, use them in in your about me page, and you know, when you're telling your story, to kind of demonstrate the level of experience that you have. So that's probably the biggest mistake I see across the board. It will be, wow. I've had, you know, 15 years experience as a mate, as a major consultant and corporate, but I'm just now going to focus on the fact that I'm a yoga teacher. It's like, no, don't do that. Let's work out how we can merge the two. Yeah,

Robert Plank 29:31 yeah. I mean, that's, that's really interesting, but, but I've definitely, like, I don't know, last, last few days of talking to people about different, like, you know, their entrepreneurial journeys and stuff like that. I've kind of been hearing that more and more, just that a lot of people have been like the successful ones. They've kind of had the these past lives or these, you know, past jobs or whatever, and then sort of adapted whatever skills they had into whatever they're doing now, whether that's, you know, like being organized or communication. Or, you know, all the, all the business stuff, or whatever it is. Like a lot of people, even though their whole profession has changed, they've still been able to adapt. And even just, like, hearing some of that, that fun stuff, I mean, like you said, like, even if it doesn't really apply, it's a nice, like, fun story. It's a cool thing. Yeah, on your bio page, pilot page is a good way to stand out. And every now and then, like all, and I'll definitely see, like, the the men do this every now and then. Like, something that sticks to mind is like, there's a there's some marker. I can't remember his name, but he sold all the software. And, like, he used to be a cop, and for whatever reason, the picture he had everywhere was him with, like, the the cop uniform and the cop hat. And it's like, What a weird, random thing. He's like, some internet person selling software. But like, still, it sort of made making people stand out, and it's also a pretty good reminder that it helps so much to have someone else on the outside looking in their business, because, like, in a lot of ways, we're super close to it, and then we have that whole, you know, confidence and ego thing, and we're not sure what we get people's attention. And I mean, just to have, like, a coach of any kind sounds super valuable just to notice those sort of missed opportunities, or like the low hanging fruit, or like kind of all that, all that sort of stuff. And so I want to make sure that everyone knows where to find you and keeps up to date on what you're up to. So can you tell people what website or websites people should go to after listening to our conversation today? Yeah,

Jessica Nazarali 31:20 yeah, most definitely. So you can go to Jessica nazarali, which is N A Z or Z, A, R, A L, i.com and if you want to learn more about business mastery, it's Jessica nazarali forward slash business mastery and coaching mastery. The coaching certification program is Jessica nazareli, forward slash coaching mastery. And then I'm on all social media platforms. If you just Google my name, I'm the only Jessica nazarali in the whole world. So you'll find everything that relates to me over there. I'm

Robert Plank 31:58 super jealous. There's about a dozen or so of me, but luckily, I grabbed the.com Before all those

Jessica Nazarali 32:02 other people. Oh, you're lucky, very lucky, very smart. Yeah, they're

Robert Plank 32:06 gonna have to go with a.net or the dot info or whatever. That sucks. Yeah. Sucks for them. Great for me, and so even better for you, because now you're the only one. So everyone should make sure to go right now to the one and the only. Jessica nausea.com, and check out that business mastery course, if what you need is help getting those funnel and ads in place, and then also join that coaching mastery certification course, if you want to become a coach and you want to know how to teach people in the right way to have that structure get them motivated, get people results and also keep them entertained. So lots of fun stuff is waiting for you at Jessica nazarelli.com and also by looking up Jessica nazarelli on Twitter to see what she's up to. So make sure to go ahead and go there right now. And I want to thank you so much, Jessica for stopping by the show today and sharing some of your coaching expertise all the way from Australia. You're

Jessica Nazarali 32:57 so welcome. It's been a pleasure. Robert same, here.

Robert Plank 33:02 Subscribe to us right now, while it's still fresh on your mind at Robert plank.com/itunes or just search Robert Plank in your iTunes app. You.